tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post5157835627389484167..comments2024-03-14T04:16:20.472-07:00Comments on In Socrates' Wake: The noble lie I tell myselfMichael Cholbihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02012523929044363216noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-25008377679002900872009-11-29T02:11:06.210-08:002009-11-29T02:11:06.210-08:00I'm a bit confused by what you're saying a...I'm a bit confused by what you're saying about the potential for change in students:<br />"But overwhelmingly...the best students entering college are the best when they leave...and those who struggled before college continued to struggle during college. This...means that most learners do not experience dramatic shifts in their learning capacities."<br /><br />The logic doesn't seem to hold up. There is no major change in relative academic abilities, but everyone's ability improves. How much by is a separate issue, which your data doesn't address.<br /><br />I also think in focusing on this idea of "fundamentally transform[ing] the learning habits and orientations of our students" and "diamonds in the rough" is a) wrong and b) unhelpful. (I made this point to Chris Panza a few months back.) It's unhelpful because most people, student or otherwise, are pretty resistant to being fundamentally transformed. Most of us are quite content to be who we are. If you come along and state at the beginning of a course that your aim is to fundamentally transform me, I'm going to approach you and your course with a high level of suspicion. It's wrong because people don't really need to "be transformed". I certainly don't think it's the job of university lecturers. Expose us to new ideas; open doors so that we can transform ourselves; provide guidance and support. That's the role of university lecturers in transformations. But as you say, not everyone transforms. The majority simply improve, and a professor should be happy to guide and facilitate improvement as well. Incremental improvement is not a lesser goal. It's the most important part of what a teacher does.chinaphilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14572591745611690731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-1131346216548849782009-11-15T05:43:18.967-08:002009-11-15T05:43:18.967-08:00This is an excellent post but by your assessment I...This is an excellent post but by your assessment I am an anomaly. I was a poor student in high school, an average student at the junior college lever, a good student at the university level and now I am writing chapter one of my dissertation. I've improved at every level of education since high school. Though I happen to be writing on Plato, my experience suggests Aristotle is right on this one: people have to be ready to understand before they are going to learn from it. Some people entering higher education are just not mature enough or ready really to learn. It took me a long time to be at that level and I am thankful I kept with it. Of course I don't really know what makes someone ready to begin learning but if they aren't ready to learn there is little to be done. Then again the Platonist in me thinks we can at least turn them towards the joy of studying or the fire so they can, if they wish, deny it. I suppose this is the best we can do sometimes, engage them so they see the value of learning. My best teachers were engaging, they made me want to learn more.Aristophanes Hiccupshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05078528567366221244noreply@blogger.com