tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post5632498155762115198..comments2024-03-14T04:16:20.472-07:00Comments on In Socrates' Wake: ExtensionMichael Cholbihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02012523929044363216noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-50780992117935667952009-10-20T13:16:33.709-07:002009-10-20T13:16:33.709-07:00I think that what is important is that we have a p...I think that what is important is that we have a policy that we are comfortable with, convey it clearly to our students, and live with the consequences. Students are fairly adaptable. But next semester I am going to give Becko's a try for the critical papers that I assign and see if it works any better then my present one regarding the quality of work.John Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16388418182862297211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-15437089978451586292009-10-20T10:53:03.633-07:002009-10-20T10:53:03.633-07:00I think a lot of this depends on the paper in the ...I think a lot of this depends on the paper in the context of the course.<br /><br />If the purpose of the assignment is to prompt the student to think more deeply about the material before class, extensions make no sense and skew the effort required to produce a good paper.<br /><br />If the paper is intended to extend thinking started in class, then extensions make sense.<br /><br />I'm not sure I agree with the school/professional world analogy. This isn't a corportation, corporate deadlines exist for a reason -- but, it has also been my experience that those deadlines are rather flexible. I know that many administrivia deadlines on campus are flexible. <br /><br />I've also found that the last-minute "I had to go out of town because X died" excuses are eliminated with the use of an electronic drop box.. as are similar excuses for missing exams.Pattynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-13696475475077546812009-10-20T09:32:27.697-07:002009-10-20T09:32:27.697-07:00I used to have a similar policy as stated above, 1...I used to have a similar policy as stated above, 1/3 of a letter grade for each day the paper is late. I still use that in some circumstances, but I also try to give students some leeway when life gets in the way. One of my mentors is much more flexible regarding deadlines now than in the past, because of some circumstances in their own personal life that made it very difficult to fulfill their professional obligations. I want to give students the flexibility I would like to have in their shoes. Moreover, if my grandmother dies tomorrow, I will cancel class and go to the funeral. My students should have a similar option in dire circumstances. The difficulty arises when they lie about such things, which then leads to us requiring 3rd party documentation and becoming something like a police officer. I want to avoid all of that. Now I simply take the late papers, and if they give me a good reason, I let it go one time. If the next assignment comes in late, I usually dock their grade.Mike Austinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02489700864050607425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-45086717828969586472009-10-18T20:57:19.046-07:002009-10-18T20:57:19.046-07:00@Matthew,
Could you email me at krhodes@uci.edu? ...@Matthew,<br /><br />Could you email me at krhodes@uci.edu? I'd like to ask how you got into teaching Philosophy at the High School level.Kris Rhodeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15340539700756639797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-16749062878152156702009-10-18T06:15:14.304-07:002009-10-18T06:15:14.304-07:00Proofreading is a skill that I must learn to do be...Proofreading is a skill that I must learn to do better. The 2nd sentence of my last post should have read 'You do not know me..."John Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16388418182862297211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-66433386553135449642009-10-18T06:13:30.838-07:002009-10-18T06:13:30.838-07:00"A disengaged teacher who worries about deadl..."A disengaged teacher who worries about deadlines and social norms will never achieve this.<br /><br />I hope for a future that rewards the intellectual power of a student, regardless of their ability to conform to a deadline."<br /><br />Anonymous<br /><br />I trust you were not inferring that I am this type of teacher. You know me well enough to make that assertion. It has been my experience (over 20 years) that students perform better when held to high standards, which include deadlines. Reasoning skills and 'intellectual power' include learning how to balance the often conflicting requirements of work loads and other commitments, allocating time and other resource so that one can perform tasks in a timely and complete fashion, etc.John Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16388418182862297211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-9234819046635251042009-10-18T00:36:17.507-07:002009-10-18T00:36:17.507-07:00What's the point in grading the assignments of...What's the point in grading the assignments of students if you don't put any real effort into it? <br /><br />I feel that there should be a greater emphasis on the development of skills and technique in education, especially in disciplines such as philosophy. <br /><br />What benefit does a student gain from coasting through a course with a passing letter grade? Simply being aware of the existence of Socrates or Plato, or their teachings, does not automatically assume an awareness of the skill of reason. <br /><br />If we teach philosophy simply because it is our greatest personal strength, then we have already failed. We need to teach the subject as if it were alive and pass on our passion to our students. <br /><br />A disengaged teacher who worries about deadlines and social norms will never achieve this. <br /><br />I hope for a future that rewards the intellectual power of a student, regardless of their ability to conform to a deadline.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-52996137515847251672009-10-17T22:37:43.412-07:002009-10-17T22:37:43.412-07:00The point about zero-tolerance deadlines as they r...The point about zero-tolerance deadlines as they relate to "real world" employment is interesting. I've heard many teachers give this rationale, and I don't always know what to think. If a teacher believes that being strict about this sort of thing will help their students learn, that's one thing. But if the goal is rather to give students some kind of hard-nosed life lesson, you might wonder if that's not overly paternalistic. Imagine chastising students for showing up to class in sweat pants and caps--"You can't show up to the office dressed up like that!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-17419619651969258832009-10-17T15:23:31.492-07:002009-10-17T15:23:31.492-07:00I like the sound the policy, Becko, though I'm...I like the sound the policy, Becko, though I'm not sure why the no-excuses clause wouldn't just turn into a slew of emails three days before the paper is due. It certainly seems fair to me.<br /><br />My students unfortunately seem to forfeit their rights to timely returns when they enroll in my course, but I've been revising my extension policy recently. In the past, anyone who had the nerve to ask received one. Now I just penalize papers 1/3 of a letter-grade per day late with extensions only for circumstances bordering on Greek tragedy. I think it strikes the right balance between pressure and time management.Adam Potthasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00686426103984188017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-71869940203705294332009-10-17T15:12:36.835-07:002009-10-17T15:12:36.835-07:00I'm sympathetic to John's and Becko's ...I'm sympathetic to John's and Becko's perspectives here. On the one hand, I think giving students a chance to exercise autonomy over their own time is a good lesson. But on the other hand, I fear that unless there are significant consequences for late work (and I'm sorry to say that many students are not sufficiently learning-focused to care whether they get feedback from us), there doesn't seem to be any reason to have deadlines.<br /><br />Here's a compromise I've reached that I think honors both of these perspectives. I allow students to rewrite any paper they turn in, with a limit of two rewrites. But I grant no extensions aside from bona fide personal or family emergencies. This means students have to turn in something by the deadline, but so long as they turn in something, they can compensate for a poor assignment by rewriting it.<br /><br />Another, more radical approach, is a mastery-based 'buffet menu' course. Under that approach, students have plenty of deadlines they can meet, but none they must meet. I love teaching a course this way, though it is a bit more work An example of this can be page at my personal page:<br />http://michael.cholbi.com/teaching/<br />(click on the Moral Philosophy syllabus)Michael Cholbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02012523929044363216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-1882002871803137252009-10-17T09:39:20.584-07:002009-10-17T09:39:20.584-07:00I am not a fan of extension policies in general. ...I am not a fan of extension policies in general. The reason for this is that I think it is setting up unrealistic expectations about the consequences of not doing assigned work when due when one is employed in business. There is a cost/penalty when one does not do what was expected in the business world and it is not too soon to treat students this lesson and treat them as if they are 'employed' by the teacher. That is not to say that there might not be a legitimate reason that arises in the normal course of life that warrants an extension, but those reasons must be keep to a minimum. My policy is that I will not accept late work unless there is 3rd party verification that excuses it being late.<br /><br />To put this in perspective, the public school district that I live in has a policy that a student cannot fail for not turning in work. They have (I believe) 9 weeks into the next semester to make up any late work. Students also can redo failed assignments. I think this is sending the wrong message to students.John Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16388418182862297211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-45823900458899993812009-10-16T17:12:06.727-07:002009-10-16T17:12:06.727-07:00I teach intro philosophy to Grade 12 students - ad...I teach intro philosophy to Grade 12 students - admittedly a different experience than everyone else here.<br /><br />My policy:<br />If a paper is on time I will make copious comments. The student has the option of editing and resubmitting within a week.<br /><br />If a paper is late I will not take off marks, but it goes to the bottom of the pile, and returned with a simple letter grade and no comments.Matthewnoreply@blogger.com