tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post730797797247817163..comments2024-03-14T04:16:20.472-07:00Comments on In Socrates' Wake: Their patience, our fortitudeMichael Cholbihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02012523929044363216noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-71377759976042957232010-05-11T19:58:40.018-07:002010-05-11T19:58:40.018-07:00Great comments.
Nathan: You're spot on, I thi...Great comments.<br /><br />Nathan: You're spot on, I think. I suspect that students' working epistemology is also responsible for their impatience. One of the real eyeopeners for students is the whole idea of a scholarly community or tradition. I recall a student asking me if there "have been any other philosophers who wrote about Kant's Categorical Imperative" (!). Their sense of where knowledge or understanding comes from is, well, naive. I'm not blaming them. It's just funny when you're inside the community or tradition for someone to imagine that the whole history of serious thought about the ethics of abortion, say, consists of a few articles. <br /><br />Mike - Point taken. The one lesson I return to again and again as a teacher is: They're not me. They may not have the background I brought to my study of philosophy, nor the natural abilities, nor the desire. And of course we're separated by my 15+ years of teaching and scholarship. One of the sources of our impatience, in my observation, is the misplaced lamentation that our students aren't us!Michael Cholbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02012523929044363216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-86305784847167825602010-05-10T20:27:25.061-07:002010-05-10T20:27:25.061-07:00I would only add that we need to demonstrate patie...I would only add that we need to demonstrate patience ourselves with our students. It is not easy, but many professors are very impatient with their students. The suggestions Nathan offers are very important as well, but if we philosophically preach patience and act impatiently, we won't get as far as we could. I say this as someone who could use an extra dose of patience with my students around finals time!Mike Austinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02489700864050607425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-62915780929086283412010-05-07T18:59:53.978-07:002010-05-07T18:59:53.978-07:00I spent about six years as an undergraduate (three...I spent about six years as an undergraduate (three of those at a community college) from 1997 to 2003, not because I needed to do so, but because I wanted to get as many philosophy classes as I could. I ended up with nearly all of the courses offered by the department. If I were in that situation at today's tuition rates, I'm not sure I would be able to make the same decision and might have tried to get through as quickly as possible meeting only the absolute minimum requirements.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-77268749747725454292010-05-07T08:34:49.682-07:002010-05-07T08:34:49.682-07:00Thanks so much for this, Nathan! Those are wonder...Thanks so much for this, Nathan! Those are wonderful thoughts.Justin Kalefnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-59582094102543661942010-05-07T08:03:24.439-07:002010-05-07T08:03:24.439-07:00Yes, my experience suggests that too many students...Yes, my experience suggests that too many students (and people generally) expect that we'll, say, "solve" long standing philosophical problems and figure out what to think about pressing moral/social issues in 10, 15 minutes tops. ("We'll discuss arguments about abortion for 4 class periods!?!"). And then they sometimes react there are "no answers" or no way to "figure it out" after this brief discussion. <br /><br />I try to respond to this impatience by pointing it out and lamenting it, observing that complex issues (in all fields) take a long time to think about, that understanding the details of a topic has value (and is necessary for) a responsible judgment on a topic, that learning to focus on a particular aspect of an issue is valuable ("we are talking about this and only this argument now... or this just this premise.. or just this one objection... just this reply...),<br />etc. <br /><br />I also sometimes try to get them to evaluate impatience from something like a Golden Rule and then Veil of Ignorance type perspective: suppose you thought that things were bad for you and society should change for these reasons; would you want people to patiently listen to your case, understand it, think it through, debate it carefully, or would you want them to give up real quickly (and so give up on you)? <br /><br />On these lines I've observed that various positive changes that have occurred have taken a lot of time and patience; impatience and the like were barriers to this, so we should be patient about current issues. <br /><br />Nathan NobisNathan Nobishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12287299803300142069noreply@blogger.com