tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post9034137922052298691..comments2024-03-14T04:16:20.472-07:00Comments on In Socrates' Wake: Not for Profit, episode 3: "We are creating the Orwellian state!"Michael Cholbihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02012523929044363216noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-61220052159469461172010-09-13T10:30:29.219-07:002010-09-13T10:30:29.219-07:00John, those are great illustrations of the value o...John, those are great illustrations of the value of a humanistic education. It often surprises me how much business leaders talk about employees needing "leadership skills," "the ability to work in teams," etc., but don't recognize how humanistic education fosters these capacities and makes possible meaningful collaboration in groups whose individuals have different cultural backgrounds, assumptions, and values. <br /><br />But a subtext in your post is that before individuals in the workplace can truly collaborate with one another, they must be able to see one another as something other than economic agents or rivals (fellow travelers, as you put it). And in order to do that — and this is what I find most provocative about your post — they must have a conception of themselves as something more than just economically valuable placeholders. So you've highlighted how humanistic education aims both at knowledge of others and knowledge of self, and how these entwine to create individuals able to maintain mutually respectful (and economically profitable!) working environments. And the notion of the classroom as a laboratory for workplace democracy -- cool!Michael Cholbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02012523929044363216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-4810252313127436412010-09-06T15:30:56.087-07:002010-09-06T15:30:56.087-07:00I'm sorry for the misattribution John. Thanks...I'm sorry for the misattribution John. Thanks so much for your interesting post. Hope you're feeling better.chris robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02947147488862582087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-78443515698388365422010-09-06T13:58:19.819-07:002010-09-06T13:58:19.819-07:00Just for the record, this is my post. Michael pos...Just for the record, this is my post. Michael posted it for me as I am having problems getting my longer comments posted. I have been sick the past few days and will respond to comments Tuesday.John Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16388418182862297211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8070355695530434450.post-48445409412527535832010-09-06T06:17:40.377-07:002010-09-06T06:17:40.377-07:00Thank you for the provocative post, Michael. Ther...Thank you for the provocative post, Michael. There’s so much here to talk about, but I want to limit myself to the sort of critical reasoning in relation to authority you describe, and whether this is truly cultivated in the Humanities. In her book, Professor Nussbaum argues that Socratic pedagogy is anti-authoritarian to its core. I think this only one strand of argument on display in Socrates, however. This is to say that while Socrates challenged the pretense to wisdom exhibited by the leaders of his day, he did argue for the authority of Philosophy as well. I love this interplay of critique and substantive claims in the dialogues, and I will illustrate it with a well known moment.<br /><br />In the “Euthyphro,” Socrates takes on the priest (and his friend) Euthyphro over the question of piety. Euthyphro believes he knows the nature of piety, and is willing to prosecute his own father for a capital offense precisely because knowledge of piety entails knowing the will of the gods in such matters. Socrates is stunned that Euthyphro feels no obligation to his father even as he admires Euthyphro’s sense of obligation to justice. As usual, Socrates’ raises questions about the nature of the concept (of piety) that Euthyphro answers with instantiations rather than essence. Euthyphro, something of what we might call a fundamentalist today, struggles to answer Socrates, but does not seem swayed at all to rethink his stance regarding his father as a result of these struggles. At this point, Socrates challenges the authoritarianism of Euthyphro by appealing to a higher authority. This can be gleaned in the very structure of the question he poses: “Is the pious being loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?” <br /><br />This is a question about the ultimate source of truth in the universe. In asking it, Socrates suggests that there is a source of truth higher and older than the gods. He says in effect, that priests like Euthyphro settled too early and too low when privileging the will of the gods. Philosophers know better. Or at least they are heretical enough to suggest that turning to the gods for guidance may be an error. In any case, we can never be sure if Euthyphro was challenged enough to engage in critical self-reflection. But we can observe an epistemological claim to the authority of Philosophy over religion.<br /><br />This strain of authoritarianism in the Humanities can be observed on a number of fronts today. Think of the way schools of thought, demanding, at least tacitly, discipline and obedience, emerge in the Humanities. This is true even of schools of thought that are dedicated to the advancement of democracy as a concept and practice. Think of the quality of democracy in classroom discussions and how it is qualified by the larger context of grades and credits. Of course there are the cults that arise around especially charismatic teachers.<br /><br />When I read Professor Nussbaum, I know I am in the presence of one of the most fertile minds of our age. I have to struggle with my deep admiration for her thinking and productivity to articulate my criticisms. I think this interplay of respect and critique the most important dimension of work in the Humanities. More to the point, however, it shows the limits to the thesis presented in the subtitle: “Why Democracy Needs the Humanities.” We need to be better than Euthyphro and recognize paradox. Here we need to examine, pace Professor Nussbaum, why the Humanities Need Democracy.chris robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02947147488862582087noreply@blogger.com